Three reasons for dismissing Christianity.

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Three reasons for dismissing Christianity.
Tweet Topic Started: Apr 22 2009, 03:31 PM (1,374 Views)
Rockman	Apr 27 2009, 08:41 PM Post #16
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	The Crack Fox Apr 27 2009, 08:19 PM Kotetsu Apr 25 2009, 03:16 PM The Crack Fox Apr 24 2009, 10:24 PM There are many places in the world in which religion plays a major part in peoples lives because they have nothing else, so would you explain to these people that they are wrong? Yes. People are capable of getting by without religion. But most people ignore that. Humans, especially the desperate, have a right to hope, no matter how ridiculous there hope is to us. I disagree with religion, but it's not our place to run around telling people what to believe. If we did that, we'd be as bad as the religions. I don't think I said I run around telling people what to believe. I do believe I said that I am trying to lead by example. The people that hope are of the desperate to find more meaning to life, then life itself. My message is that life itself is the meaning of life. People take for granted what's right in front of them and toss it aside for big dreams of a great after life where everything's peachy. I am trying to make people understand that their lives and the people around them are what is important, not God. There's a difference between "running around and telling people what to believe," and arguing points about what they believe. I hope you aren't misinterpreting my thread or replies. Also, being a verbal pacifist is by far a terrible way of living. If no one stood up to the people who are trying to take science out of schools, put religion as a required curriculum, take the right to belief out of the founding principle of America, then what do we have left? I say that if you don't stand up for what you believe in, and make a point to let people know why what you think is correct, then get out of the way. There's no middle ground here. And there is no, better than thee. I don't think of myself as any better than the Jehovah's witness knocking on my door, claiming to have a saving grace for my life. They are fighting for what they believe in, the way they were taught. Therefore we need to counter-act the way we were taught. Intelligence.
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*DSXIII*	Apr 28 2009, 02:59 PM Post #17
Posts: 1,947 Group: Guardian Member #2,240 Joined: April 3, 2007 Gender Male Country United States	Point 1: Does it actually state that Adam and Eve were indeed white? The 50+ kids would eventually multiply and spread across the earth, and over time different exposures to sunlight and/or other environmental properties may have caused the differences in pigment in which mankind calls "race". Point 2: It's right to assume that incest is a normality based on what you have explained, but when you think about it how else could humans have started? Even in scientific views, everything, not just humans come from one source. The planet had to start somehow and if it didn't just appear out of nowhere, eventually mankind would have been created through some form of incest or another. So using the logic that you've placed in your second point, maybe everyone should accept incest regardless of religious beliefs or nonbeliefs.



Rockman	Apr 28 2009, 03:38 PM Post #18
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	HustLa Apr 28 2009, 02:59 PM Point 1: Does it actually state that Adam and Eve were indeed white? The 50+ kids would eventually multiply and spread across the earth, and over time different exposures to sunlight and/or other environmental properties may have caused the differences in pigment in which mankind calls "race". Point 2: It's right to assume that incest is a normality based on what you have explained, but when you think about it how else could humans have started? Even in scientific views, everything, not just humans come from one source. The planet had to start somehow and if it didn't just appear out of nowhere, eventually mankind would have been created through some form of incest or another. So using the logic that you've placed in your second point, maybe everyone should accept incest regardless of religious beliefs or nonbeliefs. Answer to point 1: It doesn't state. Therefore the person that wrote the Genesis may not actually know himself. And if he doesn't actually know himself and made it up on the spot, then it's not a credible source of information. There's also this thing where, the more times you pass down a story, the more different it becomes. Also you just explained what evolution is all about in your answer. You are saying that humans evolved into the races they are now. This is completely conflicting with what the bible preaches. Answer to point 2: The problem with accepting incest today, is the science that we know set forth. We know, and it is a fact, that if we accept incest today, there will be a lot more physical and mental abnormalities in the populations. The problem that I set forth, and the reason I brought it up, is that religion does not accept incest. Quote: Incest is condemned. None of you shall approach to any that is near of kin to him, to uncover their nakedness. Leviticus 18:6 And, at least in some cases, is punishable by death. And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:11 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:12 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. -- Leviticus 20:14 Yet, throughout Genesis, the one book said to have the most validity, it contradicts itself. It is ok, it isn't ok, which is it? Religion itself doesn't even have that answer. And by association, I claim that neither did or do any of the people or prophets that wrote the bible. Or any Holy book for that matter. How can someone with born skepticism, AKA, A human, believe something that falsifies itself on the very first 100 pages? If someone wrote a book about how you could fly if you jumped off a building, and then later the book reads that doing so isn't a good idea, who is going to do it? Would you? Would you if you grew up believing that jumping off a building would allow you to fly? Which part of the book are you going to believe? Of course you wouldn't jump off a building. That's just silly. Of course you wouldn't sleep with your sister. That's just silly. But the bible did it on the first couple of pages, it must be ok? Of course not. You know why it's wrong, and if science didn't explain that to you, well that's where we look at those who don't believe in certain sciences. Quote: After nearly three decades in the Bible Belt, the number of brothers marrying their sisters has declined by 22 percent. The sudden drop has been attributed to a new campaign against incest in Tennessee, Virginia, North and South Carolina. As well as a more lenient law regarding people marrying their dogs, cats and farm animals. Source: evangelicalspectator.com Oh, so you mean that it isn't 0%? Hmmm.
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Temphis	Apr 29 2009, 12:38 PM Post #19
Rampaging Explosion of Euphoric Glory! Posts: 1,223 Group: Member Member #3,903 Joined: January 6, 2009 Gender Male Favourite Anime Ghost in the Shell: S.A.C., Katananagari, Mushishi, Full Metal: Brotherhood, CowboyBeebop, Monster What Browser do you use? Google Chrome Favourite Manga Gantz, Berserk, One Punch Man, Dragon Ball, One Piece, Attack on Titan, Re: Monster, (no more room)	look man, you have some good questions, but all your points prove is that the bible is an incomplete record of the worlds history. If it is a true book and were completed, than it would not only answer all those questions and concerns, but it wouldn't contridict itself, but truth be told, it's not entierly translated correctly, plus it was like, torn apart and selectivly put together buy a bunch of different people who believed in different stuff after the council of Nicea finnished their little debat on "what is god" and came to a conclusion not contained in the Bible and formed the a church that was part of the government and killed anyone that didn't share it's views.... The Bible does have records of the history for the jews though. The thing is, your using examples of how god told people to do things normally against his other commandments, and then saying that it's okay because they did it back then.... the thing is, god was specifically telling people to multiply through incest at that time, because there was no other way to multiply. incest definately isn't okay now, it's unhealthy and can result in very complicated situations, mostly because it's considered Taboo in most places. lets look at it this way, God commanded Abraham, who was the Prophet of Gods Church at that time, to have multiple wives, but during the new testament, a prophet clearly states that polygamy is wrong. how is this congruent you might ask? well, if god is perfect, that means he can't do something wrong, so he wouldn't ask Abraham to do it, unless it was good for him to do so. likewise, he only gives us commandments, because it's good for us to follow them. being a christian isn't restrictive at all, it's enlightening, because we have some guidance on what things will help us if we do them, and what things will end up hurting us if we do them. also, christianity gets a bad rep, mostly from christians themselves, that it's a religion of "blind faith". thats only true if your pastor dosn't want you to think to hard, or use critical thinking, which are things that the bible tells you to do when praying and asking god questions. in actuality, it's a religion of "learning by experience if god fulfills promises", since theres a promise attached to every commandment. as far as a answer to the whole "different races", this is my view, but it's shared in the "Book of mormon" and in the Book of Genesis in the Bible that people are "Marked" or "Cursed" so that others know they have offended god. in the book of mormon, it mentions that two brothers, who were both white, went their seperate ways. they both were administered to by angels and knew for a surety that god lived, they had witnessed countless miracles, but Laman, the older brother, continuelly acted out against his younger brother, whom god had set as a leader among their family. they were on the american continent around 600 years before christ, and were to populate the american continent, but because Laman refused to follow god, God marked Laman so that all of his posterity would be dark skinned, and that way, people could tell the difference between the peoples lineage. the descendants of Nephi who followed god remained white, or whatever color people from Isreal were, and Lamans where dark skinned. over the next millenium, the Americas where populated, and both races were fully intermingled, so now we have Native americans today, who are the descendants of both Nephi and Laman. I hope that provides a possible answer to your question, if not, than theres really nothing else I can say here. Edited by Temphis, May 1 2009, 01:22 PM.



Jonnoley	May 2 2009, 12:40 PM Post #20
Posts: 176 Group: Member Member #3,988 Joined: February 16, 2009	Right. Before I start, I am aethiest, because I see no logic in how the Bible explains the universe. If you ask Steven Hawking how the universe started, he says "The big bang." Ask Jesus, and he says "God did it." I have this problem with all religion, but you've all been going on about Christianity. However, I'm also seeing a lack of logic in some arguments here. You dislike religions because they force thier opinions upon people, but there are no topics here saying "Why you should all be Muslim." The Bible (and the Qu'ran, and the Torah, and everything else,) is a massive text. Most of it was probably written by many completely different authors, and compiled by another person. So there probably are thousands of paradoxes, because it was written without the knowlegde of the other parts. And also, you focus on Christianity, but talk largely about the old testament, which is two thousand years older than Christianity. You make it sound like religion is evil, but what about the third Pillar of Islam, Zakat? All Muslims must give 2.5% of thier wealth to the poor or needy. And Hinduism doesn't even tell you in which way to live your life. It just says to live it with love and respect for God (All Hindu Gods are faces of the single diety.) What about Buddhism, which preaches peace and vegitarianism? To be honest, saying peoples beliefs are " ridiculous" just shows that you're narrow-minded, and aren't willing to think about what people need to survive. In the current, insanely racist, climate, people have to think of these things logically. An illogical hatred of religion is not a sign of intelligence. Again, I point out I am aethiest.



Rockman	May 2 2009, 01:56 PM Post #21
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	jonnoley May 2 2009, 12:40 PM Right. Before I start, I am aethiest, because I see no logic in how the Bible explains the universe. If you ask Steven Hawking how the universe started, he says "The big bang." Ask Jesus, and he says "God did it." I have this problem with all religion, but you've all been going on about Christianity. However, I'm also seeing a lack of logic in some arguments here. You dislike religions because they force thier opinions upon people, but there are no topics here saying "Why you should all be Muslim." The Bible (and the Qu'ran, and the Torah, and everything else,) is a massive text. Most of it was probably written by many completely different authors, and compiled by another person. So there probably are thousands of paradoxes, because it was written without the knowlegde of the other parts. And also, you focus on Christianity, but talk largely about the old testament, which is two thousand years older than Christianity. You make it sound like religion is evil, but what about the third Pillar of Islam, Zakat? All Muslims must give 2.5% of thier wealth to the poor or needy. And Hinduism doesn't even tell you in which way to live your life. It just says to live it with love and respect for God (All Hindu Gods are faces of the single diety.) What about Buddhism, which preaches peace and vegitarianism? To be honest, saying peoples beliefs are " ridiculous" just shows that you're narrow-minded, and aren't willing to think about what people need to survive. In the current, insanely racist, climate, people have to think of these things logically. An illogical hatred of religion is not a sign of intelligence. Again, I point out I am aethiest. An illogical response to a clearly pointed out topic isn't much better. This topic is about my three points stated above. Not about how much you think I hate Christianity. You should probably read the topics before making an assessment. People. For the last time. This isn't an, "I BELIEVE THIS" thread. There are specific things to talk about in this thread. If you don't know anything about the bible, please tell us what you think of the points in general. "I believe" threads are buried deeper in the debate area. Go look for them.
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* Sousen Ichimonji	May 3 2009, 09:02 AM Post #22
You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold Posts: 4,176 Group: Retired Staff Member #3,986 Joined: February 15, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Avatar What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Ai Kora	Ok, your three points then. They are fundamentally narrow-minded. They are as narrow-minded as the religions you have talked about, by which I mean Christianity, because you have only talked about Christianity. This isn't exactly a "clearly pointed-out topic", because the name of the topic is false. It should be named "Three reason's for dismissing Christianity".
	Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget


Jonnoley	May 3 2009, 11:59 AM Post #23
Posts: 176 Group: Member Member #3,988 Joined: February 16, 2009	Fine. All your points can be dismissed by pointing out that they were written when things were different. Christianity is finally learning to accept homosexuality. Slowly, but it's getting there. My point here is society changes. THey can't throw out half the Bible, just to make people happy. And I at least tried to include the word RELIGION instead of your attempt, which seems to just be Christianity. Edited by Jonnoley, May 4 2009, 10:31 AM.



Meowth	May 3 2009, 02:04 PM Post #24
=._.= Posts: 130,670 Group: Princess Member #23 Joined: November 22, 2004 Gender Female Country United Kingdom Favourite Anime The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya What Browser do you use? FireFox Favourite Manga Fruits Basket	jonnoley May 3 2009, 11:59 AM Fine. All your points can be dismissed by pointing out that they were written when things were different. That does imply that at one point incest was acceptable though. Quote: And I at least tried to include the word RELIGION instead of your pathetic attempt, which seems to just be Christianity. I see where you're going there, since it's not really all religions, but worse things are said/implied in some other religions.



Rockman	May 3 2009, 03:26 PM Post #25
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	The Crack Fox May 3 2009, 09:02 AM Ok, your three points then. They are fundamentally narrow-minded. They are as narrow-minded as the religions you have talked about, by which I mean Christianity, because you have only talked about Christianity. This isn't exactly a "clearly pointed-out topic", because the name of the topic is false. It should be named "Three reason's for dismissing Christianity". Renamed. Anything else you'd like to point out in a rude way? Oh look, you're new here. There are a couple of general rules we like to stick to when posting in this area. First of all we try to keep the insults down to a minimum. Especially if you don't have the balls to make topics like this in the first place, you shouldn't ruin it for those who do. Quote: Fine. All your points can be dismissed by pointing out that they were written when things were different. Christianity is finally learning to accept homosexuality. Slowly, but it's getting there. My point here is society changes. THey can't throw out half the Bible, just to make people like you happy. And I at least tried to include the word RELIGION instead of your pathetic attempt, which seems to just be Christianity. You mean to tell me that things change? I'm shocked to hear that society went from living in caves to living in buildings. When a pastor stands on a podium and tells me that the Bible is how I should live my life, he should probably insert a disclaimer that the entire Bible isn't how I should live my life. Otherwise people might interpret it wrong. Like they already do. You tell me that they can't throw out half the Bible to make people like me happy? I disagree. They have been throwing out parts of the Bible for years. Someone decided what was Canonical and they have a pile of scrolls sitting under glass case that aren't added to the Bible. But thanks for putting words in my mouth again, and assuming I want them thrown out and that it would make me happy. Oh, you must be new here too. Like I told Crackfox, we try to refrain from using personal attacks during debate. Just because you disagree with what someone has to say, doesn't give you the right to call someones thoughts or work pathetic attempts. Because frankly I don't see you typing your heart out on issues that mean a lot to you. And maybe when you do, I'll smash it into the ground with my universal knowledge and call it a pathetic attempt. There are reasons why I'm not speaking to every religion, and those reasons include the ones that hinder my rights in the society I live in. Buddhists aren't trying to make my kids learn about creationism without my consent in public schools. Jews aren't telling me I can't fly banners next to their banners on capitol grounds. Hindu's aren't making statues of their god that block my view of the sun. ALL OF THOSE RELIGIONS ARE OLDER AND MORE ESTABLISHED. And besides the fact that I don't have to give you a reason why I am dismissing Christianity, and likewise you haven't given me a reason not to.
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* Sousen Ichimonji	May 3 2009, 08:53 PM Post #26
You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold Posts: 4,176 Group: Retired Staff Member #3,986 Joined: February 15, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Avatar What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Ai Kora	I don't believe that I actually insulted you. My tone was, regretably, negative, but as is yours. You wanted people to discuss your points. I discussed your points. If you dislike negative responses to your points, then don't discuss it. You actually asked us to stop agreeing and to stop discussing our beliefs as impolitely as possible, so pardon me if I don't speak like a diplomat to you. I believe that you were far worse to me than I was to you, as soon as I disageed with you. Kotetsu, you are the sort of person that makes deep discussion hard for new members. I will say this though: thank you for changing the name of the topic. Now it isn't misleading. And you may like to refrain from using personal attacks: it's against the general rules, as you said.
	Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget


Rockman	May 4 2009, 02:57 AM Post #27
hoighty-toighty Posts: 11,070 Group: Guardian Member #48 Joined: December 17, 2004 Gender Male Country United States What Browser do you use? Firefox, when it isn't crashing.	The Crack Fox May 3 2009, 08:53 PM I don't believe that I actually insulted you. My tone was, regretably, negative, but as is yours. You wanted people to discuss your points. I discussed your points. If you dislike negative responses to your points, then don't discuss it. You actually asked us to stop agreeing and to stop discussing our beliefs as impolitely as possible, so pardon me if I don't speak like a diplomat to you. I believe that you were far worse to me than I was to you, as soon as I disageed with you. Kotetsu, you are the sort of person that makes deep discussion hard for new members. I will say this though: thank you for changing the name of the topic. Now it isn't misleading. And you may like to refrain from using personal attacks: it's against the general rules, as you said. I apologize for the balls comment. I was just reacting to being called narrow-minded and pathetic attempts. And you're right, along with some other people around here I can be very (insert word for Titan like figure here.) I tend to argue topics into the ground when given the chance. What I'm expecting is an argument that makes me think. Like Temphis wrote. I've read it at least 5 times now. I still can't come to a conclusive argument against it.
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~~Frankie~~	May 4 2009, 03:55 AM Post #28
Posts: 573 Group: GTFO Member #593 Joined: August 8, 2005	Atheism is the way. Final.



* Sousen Ichimonji	May 4 2009, 10:14 AM Post #29
You are calm and reposed, let your beauty unfold Posts: 4,176 Group: Retired Staff Member #3,986 Joined: February 15, 2009 Gender Not Specified Country None Favourite Anime Avatar What Browser do you use? Chrome Favourite Manga Ai Kora	Kotetsu May 4 2009, 02:57 AM The Crack Fox May 3 2009, 08:53 PM I don't believe that I actually insulted you. My tone was, regretably, negative, but as is yours. You wanted people to discuss your points. I discussed your points. If you dislike negative responses to your points, then don't discuss it. You actually asked us to stop agreeing and to stop discussing our beliefs as impolitely as possible, so pardon me if I don't speak like a diplomat to you. I believe that you were far worse to me than I was to you, as soon as I disageed with you. Kotetsu, you are the sort of person that makes deep discussion hard for new members. I will say this though: thank you for changing the name of the topic. Now it isn't misleading. And you may like to refrain from using personal attacks: it's against the general rules, as you said. I apologize for the balls comment. I was just reacting to being called narrow-minded and pathetic attempts. And you're right, along with some other people around here I can be very (insert word for Titan like figure here.) I tend to argue topics into the ground when given the chance. What I'm expecting is an argument that makes me think. Like Temphis wrote. I've read it at least 5 times now. I still can't come to a conclusive argument against it. I apologise for the narrow-minded comment as well. To the matter of your 3 points: now that they are obviously describing Christianity alone, it is easier to agree with them. My only qualm with them is one that was mentioned before; the Bible isn't a complete history of the world. To me, it's just a collection of stories with good morals that weren't meant to be taken literally. And as it is a collection of stories, most of the stories had different writers, which is why there are so many hypocracies. In several different incidents, the Bible was reformed, edited and ripped apart and pieced together again. There is no way for it to be taken as literal fact anymore, because even if it is true then the Bible is an edited and reformed view of history. And also, your third point (sorry, I've not mastered the "Quote" system yet) says: "For my third point, I claim that in order for you to believe Christianity completely, and call yourself a Christian, you must live and die by my first two points. Racism, and Incest. If not, you are throwing out sections of the bible that are crucial to explaining how we are here. And if you throw out those arguments, WHAT DO YOU HAVE?" - Kotetsu If acting like the way the characters in the Bible acted when leading to our existance is what religion is about, then why don't christians also wear nothing other than vegetation to hide their privates? Why don't they ride camels and llamas around? If that is what religion is about, then there are very few true christians in the world. If christianity is about accepting and copying the bible, then progress would have stopped millenia ago. If you are correct, then all christians are blaspheming for living modern lives unlike there ancestors lives. A true christian (which I'm not, just to remind everyone) doesn't have to live like the characters in the Bible and base his/her live on racism and incest. As I said, the bible is a collection of stories filled with morals. It's a case of picking the best morals, or the morals which are pointed out to you. To Kyonko: Incest was actually accepted in many civilisations. The Romans and Egyptians are just two examples of great empires that tolerated, possibly even promoted, incest.
	Call me a safe bet, I'm betting I'm not I'm glad that you can forgive, only hoping as time goes, you can forget


Jonnoley	May 4 2009, 10:30 AM Post #30
Posts: 176 Group: Member Member #3,988 Joined: February 16, 2009	I was in Edinburgh the other week, and I saw a building with a sign saying "Christian Society of Science" (or something along those lines, I wasn't really paying attention.) Surely, if Christianity was following the Bible to the letter, such buildings could never exist, even though I doubt they do any real research. As the Crack Fox pointed out, not every Christian lives like it's 100BC. And I apologise for the "pathetic" thing. Sorry.



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